was to make the owner or occupier of the whole house responsible, because the houses were let out in portions to irresponsible persons. I propose therefore that the clause be left over for further consideration, in order that we may see how far the motion of the hon. member might be granted without upsetting the object of the Registration Ordinance.
This suggestion was adopted and the clause left over for further consideration.
Hon. C. P. CHATER—Sir, I beg to propose an amendment in subsection 11 of clause 3, which as it stands reads as follows—“New Building—Any structure, begun after the commencement of this Ordinance or of which the enclosing walls have not been carried higher than the footings, or such old buildings as shall for the purposes of re-construction be taken down to an extent exceeding one half, such half to be measured in cubic feet.” This really appears to me like retrospective legislation, and I would propose that the words “or of which the enclosing walls have not been carried higher than the footings” be struck out. Then I have also to propose an amendment in the second portion of this clause. I propose that it read “or such old buildings as shall, for the purposes of re-construction, be taken down to an extent exceeding two-thirds, such two-thirds to be measured in cubic feet.” If a landlord has a house of two storeys and would like to take down one storey, or to put it in other language, a ground floor and first floor, and he wished to take down the first floor to make improvements, he would come immediately under this Ordinance, because in doing so he would have to take the roof off and that is measured in cubic feet. He would therefore become liable to examinations and all sorts of troubles. I would not mind if the section read “more than half the house or more than one storey”, but if it is to be measured by cubic feet, the roof would come in and affect it very materially, and improvements which would otherwise take place, would be stopped.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—The first portion of this sub-section is taken verbatim from the law of England. Well, it is not too much to refer your new law to new buildings not one inch above the level of the ground. And with regard to the second portion of the clause I would explain to my hon. friend that the cube mentioned here is not the cube of the house, that is, the space enclosed within the four walls and the roof. The meaning is a cube of masonry, or work, so that the roof would in no way affect it. It is a cube of solid masonry, not a cube of space enclosed.
Hon. C. P. CHATER—Still, sir, I think my amendment would come in. The half of the house would be one floor, but if the roof were included in the measurement it would be nearly two-thirds. If the clause stands as it is people would rather not pull down and reconstruct properties, to be brought within the Ordinance.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—Then my hon. friend proposes two-thirds instead of one half?
Hon. C. P. CHATER—Exactly.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—I think that is a very fair concession.
Hon. P. RYRIE—Would it not be well to define the cube?
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—It is of no great consequence. Probably, sir, the best plan would be to postpone the consideration of this clause until we have had an opportunity of looking at the English legislation.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—It would facilitate matters very much if hon. members would let the Council know beforehand what amendments they mean to submit.
His EXCELLENCY—Of course it would. It is only fair to the Government that they should do so, because we want to sound this matter thoroughly and if necessary go and satisfy ourselves practically if there is any doubt on the subject. It would be well if hon. gentlemen could give notice of these intended amendments. I have no objection to let this clause stand over for future consideration.
Further consideration of the clause was postponed accordingly.
Hon. C. P. CHATER proposed an amendment in Clause 4. The Clause reads as follows—“The Board shall consist of the Surveyor-General, the Registrar-General, the Captain Superintendent of Police, the Colonial Surgeon, and not more than six additional members, four of whom (two being Chinese) shall be appointed by the Governor and one elected by the Chamber of Commerce and one by the Justices of the Peace. Non-official members of the Board shall hold office for three years.” The hon. member said—
The section as it now stands provides that the board shall consist of ten members, four Government officials and six additional members, four of whom shall be appointed by the Governor. It further provides that one shall be elected by the Justices of the Peace and the sixth by the Chamber of Commerce. In place of the last one being elected by the Chamber of Commerce, I beg to propose he be elected by the tax-payers whose names are included in the special and common jury lists and such tax-payers as are exempted from service on juries on account of their professional avocations. The remaining four I would also propose should be elected by the Crown lessees or their agents, two of them to be Chinese. I think a board such as this should be representative of all parties concerned, more especially those very closely affected by the Ordinance. You have here four Government officials, one member elected by the Justices of the Peace, and I think the Crown lessees who pay pretty nearly all the Crown rents to the Government ought certainly to be represented. This Board, if it is not a Municipal Board to-day, will probably drift to that in a very short time, and I am told in every part of the world members of Municipal Councils are elected by the tax-payers and the Crown lessees; and however many there are in number I do not say the election should be confined to the Crown lessees only, but they should have the right of selecting four out of the ten.
Hon. A. P. MacEwen—Sir, I beg to second the proposal of the hon. member. When this Bill was sent up to the Government by the Sanitary Board, it contained a provision that two members should be elected by the tax-payers whose names were included in the special and common jury lists and such tax-payers as are exempt from service on juries by reason of their professional avocations. It was considered by the present Sanitary Board that the franchise should be extended in that direction. There are many people in the colony, tax-payers, entitled to a vote, and it would give them an increased interest in the affairs of the colony if the franchise were extended to them.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—Sir, I was going to propose that the words “and one elected by the Chamber of Commerce and one by the Justices of the Peace” be struck out, and that in lieu thereof the following should be inserted “and two shall be elected by such tax-payers as are included in the special and common jury and by such tax-payers as are exempt from service on a jury on account of their professional avocations,” so that the unofficial members will be six. Of the four appointed by the Governor two would be Chinese. And there would be two appointed by the tax-payers whose names stand on the jury list and those tax-payers who on account of their professions are exempted from serving on juries.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL—That is the old Bill, is it not?
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL—That is the old Bill. It is proposed that those exempted from service on juries such as barristers and factors, shall be entitled to a vote. I don't know whether my hon. friend maintains his amendment.
Hon. C. P. CHATER—Yes, sir. I stick to my amendment. I am very strongly of opinion the Crown lessees should have a voice. The Board is intrusted with great powers and really the Crown lessees who pay the Crown rents ought to have a voice in it.
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The COLONIAL TREASURER—Before the amendments are put, may I suggest to my hon. friends a little verbal amendment, a substitution of the word “ratepayers” for “taxpayers.” We have really no taxpayers. The stamp tax is really the only tax we have. “Ratepayers” is the proper term.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE—I think it might facilitate matters if this were left over for consideration and these amendments put in print, because the wording of them requires consideration. I think hon. members who wish to propose amendments should send them in such a form that they could be printed and circulated in some such way as is done in the House of Commons. Of course this need not be done with verbal amendments, but in case of amendments like this, going to the whole root of a section, it would facilitate the work of the Council very much if they were put in print. I therefore request that further consideration of this section should be left over and that the amendments be put in print and circulated before the next meeting of the Council.
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was to make the owner or occupier of the whole! hanse responsibla, haoruse the houses were lat out in portions to irresponsible persons. I pro- pose therefore that the clanse be left over for) farther consideration, in order that we may see how far the motion of the hoɑ, member micht I ha sdantad without upsetting the object of the
Registration Ordinance.
This suggestion was adopted and the clanse left over for further consideration.
Hon. C. P. CHATER-Sir, I bag to propose an amendment in subsection 11 of clause 3, which as it stands reads as follows-" Now Building-Any structure, begun after the commencement of this Ordinance or of which the enclosing walls have not been carried higher than the footings, or snoh old buildings as shall for the purposes of re- construction be taken down to an extent ex- ceeding one half, such half to be messured in eubic feet." This really appears to me like rA- trospective legislation, and I would propose that the words "or of which the enclosing walls have not been carried higher than the footings" be struck ont. Then I have also to propose su amendment in the second portion of this olause. I propose that it read "or such old buildings as shall, for the purposes of re-construction. be taken down to an extent exceeding two-thirds, such two-thirds to be measured in cubic feet." If s landlord has a house of two storeys and would like to take down one storey, or to put it in other language, a ground floor and first floor, and he wished to take down the first floor to make improvements, he would coue immediately under this Ordinance, because in doing so he would have to take the roof off and that is measured in cubic feet. He would therefore become liable to examinations and all sorts of troubles. I would not mind if the section read "more than half the house or more than one storey", but if it is to be measured by cubic feet, the roof would come in and affect it very materially, and im- provements which would otherwise take place. would be stopped.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL-The first portion of this sub-section is taken verbatim from the law of England. Well, it is not too much to refer your new law to new buildings not one iuch above the level of the ground. Aud with regard to the second portion of the clause I would explain to my hon. friend that the oabe men- tioned here is not the cube of the house, that is, the space enclosed within the four walls and the roof. The meaning is a cube of masonry, ar work, so that the roof would in no way affect it. It is a cube of solid masonry, not a cube of space enclosed.
Hon. C. P. CHATER-Still, sir, I think my amendment would come in. The half of the house would be one floor, but if the roof were in- cluded in the measurement it would be nearly two-thirds. If the clause stands as it is people would rather not pull down and reconstruct pro- parties, to be brought within the Ordinance.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL-Then my hon. friend proposes two-tbirds instead of one half?
Hon. C. P. CUATER-Exactly.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL-I think that is a very fair concession
Hon. P. RYRIE-Would it not be well to de- fine the cube?
The SURVEYOR GENERAL-It is of no great consequence. Probably. sir, the best plan would be to postpone the consideration of this clause on- til we have had an opportunity of looking at the English legislation.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-It would facilitate matters very much if hon. members would let the Council know beforehand what amendments they mean to submit.
His EXCELLENCY--Of course it would. It is only fair to the Government that they should do! so, because we want to sound this matter thoroughly and if necessary go and satisfy ourselves practically if there is any doubt on the subject. It would be well if hon. gentlemen could give notice of these intended amendments. 1 have no objection to let this clause stand over for future consideration.
Further consideration of the clause was post- poned accordingly.
Hon. C. P. CHATEE proposed an amendment in Clause 4. The Clause reads as follows "The Board shall consist of the Surveyor-General, the Registrar-General, the Captain Superintendent of Police, the Colonial Surgeon, and not more than six additional mombers, four of whom (two being Chinese) shall be appointed by the Gover- nor and one elected by the Chamber of Com- mares vnd one by the Jestions of the Panca. Non-official members of the Bored shall hold office for three vasra,” The hon. membər «sid→
The soction as it now stands provides that the board shall consist of ten mambers, four Govern- mant oficials and six additional members, for of whom shall be appointed by the Governor. It farther provides that one shall be elected by the Justines of the Peace and the sixth by the Cham- bar of Com'uares In place of the last one being elooted by the Charabse of Commerce, I hag to propose he be elected by the tax-nayers whose namas are included in the spacial and common jury lists and such tax-payara as are exempted from service on juries on account of their pro- fessional avocations. The remaining four I would also propose should be elected by the crown lessens or their agents, two of them to be Chinese. I think a board such as this should be ra- presentative of all parties concerned, mora espacially those very closely affected by the Ordinanca. You have here four Govern- mant officials, one member elected by the Justices of the Pance, and I think the Crown lessses who nav pretty nearly all the Crown rents to the Government ought certainly to be re- presented. This Board, if it is not a Municipal Boned to-day, will probably drift to that in a vary short time, and I am told in every part of tha world members of Municinal Councils are elected by the tax-payors and the Crown lessees; and however many there are in number I do not say the election should be confined to the Crown loggess only. bat they should have the right of slecting four out of the ton.
Hon. A. P. MacEwey-Sir, I beg to second the proposal of the hon. member. When this Bill was sent up to the Government by the Saui. bary Board, it contained a provision that two morabors should be elected by the tax-payara whose names ware included in the special and common inre lists and such tax-payors as 173 examot from serviss on juries by reason of their professional arogations. It was considered by the present Sanitary Board that the franchisa should be extended in that dıraction. There are many people in the colony, tax-pavers, antifled to a vote, and it would give them an increagoi interest in the affairs of the colony if the fran- chise were extended to them.
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-Sic. I was going to propose that the words "and ore slected by the Chamber of Commerce and one by the Justices of the Pasos" be struck out, and that in lien tharəof the following should be in- gerted "and two shall be elected by such tax-nav- ers as are included in the special and common jury and by such fax-payers as ara examut from servics on a fury on secount of their professional avamı. tions," an that the unofisial mvabers will be sir. Of the four anpointed by the Governor two wold be Chinese. And there would by two appointed by the tax-payers whose names ander on the jury list and thous tax-navera who on account of their professions are exempted from serving on ju ries.
The SURVEYOR GENERAL-That is the old Bill, is it not ?
The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-That is the old Bill. It is propoved that thoas srampted from service on juriss moh as barristors and factors, shall be entitled to a vota. I don't know whather my hon. friend maintains his amondment.
Hon. C. P. CHATER-Yes, sir. I stick to my zmandment. I am vare strongly of opinion the Crown lesseer should have a voice. The Board is intrusted with great nowers and really the Crown lastens who pay the Crown rents ought to have a voies in it.
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The COLONIAŁ TREASURER-Before the amandments are put, may I suggest to my hon. friends a little verbal amendment, a substitu. tion of the word "ratanayers" for "taxpayera.' We have really no taxpavers, The stamo tax is really the only tax we have. "Ratepayers" is *he proper term.
The ACTING CHIRE JUSTICE-T think it might facilitate matters if this were left over for consideration and thesa amandments put in print, because the worling of them requires considera- tion. I think han, membora who wish to pronose amandmants should sand them in such a form that they could be printat and circulated in some such way as is done in the Tanse of Cam- mons. Of course this need not be done with varbal amandments, but in cass of amendments like this, going to the whole root of a soction, it would facilitate the work of the Council very much if they were put in print. I therefore an roast that further consideration of this section should be left over and that the amendments be out in print and cironlated before the next meet- ting of the Cornoil.
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